Отправлено: 03.02.05 20:37. Заголовок: Коннор Дойл как личность

Привет всем! Я здесь новенькая. И хотя видела его уже довольно давно, ощущаю себя приверженцем именно первого сезона. А так как учусь в школе Самопознания, хотела бы поднять тему именно о личностных качествах Коннора, узнать больше о его достоинствах и недостатках, о нем самом как о Человеке.

 Отправлено: 21.12.13 18:02. Заголовок: Что-то я как модерат..

Я согласная с тем, что Дойл - предсказуемый персонаж. Но вместе с этим я думаю, что для взрослого свободного мужчины спать со взрослыми свободными женщинами - это самая предсказуемая вещь, какая вообще может быть, если только мужчина не имеет какого-либо расстройства сексуальной функции либо не принял в свое время целибат. Ни о том, ни о другом нам намеков не было.

Что касается того, что было в сериале. мы ни разу не видели в первом сезоне, чтобы Дойл или кто-то еще ел или уходил/приходил из туалетной комнаты. В лучшем случае они что-то пьют (кофе или чай). Но это не значит, что Дойл питался солнечным светом или кофе/чай в его организме полностью всасывался в кровь. Кстати, что-то не припомню негодования на тему прелюбодеяний или чего-то еще, когда я писала интерактив по пропущенной сцене после Тумана. А ведь там Дойл тоже внезапно! занимается сексом. Но с Доннер. Видимо, это типа предсказуемо и в характере?

 Отправлено: 22.12.13 16:48. Заголовок: DellaD Я никогда н..

DellaD

Я никогда не отрицал это и сказать открыто я не могу принять Коннор/Клер спаривание и любовь Линдсей/Коннор пару.но при оценке, я положил эту личные предпочтения в сторону, а затем судья.
так говорить в общем, да, это предсказуемо и нормально Если бесплатный мужчины начинает отношения с свободной женщины,где бы и как никогда он хочет получить старт, не имеет значения.но не если он постоянно меняется партнеров.
теперь указывает на истории (Я прочитал немного истории, но не продолжается до конца, так что я знаю, что происходит)Я должен сказать что-то.если это было сказано Дойл были девушки, прежде чем,ну приемлемый,но у него было короткое время отношения с каждой девушке в своей команде,и это не кажется, что приемлемо.
что можно интерпретировать как непредсказуема здесь,или, может быть, лучше сказать, чтобы использовать это вряд и трудно получить в голову,является то, что она не представляет такой благопристойный характер,но мы знаем, Дойл как порядочного человека, и мы хотим, чтобы он остался таким образом.
имейте в виду, что все мы начали любить Коннор Дойл и другие наши любимые герои как они были в фильме.так что теперь, если человек меняет это характер,Результатом является то, мы начинаем разногласий.потому что это не больше, персонаж всем нам понравилось,оно меняется на то, что один человек любит,а другой не нравится

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

Но с Доннер. Видимо, это типа предсказуемо и в характере?

и я должен сказать, что-то DellaD.Коннор/Линдси спаривание кажется более предсказуемым и более правдоподобным,потому что это то, что существует в шоу,с почти прозрачных намеков в первом сезоне и доказал и непосредственно говорится в 418 но никогда не это не было сказано что-то вроде этого о Коннор/Клер или кого-либо еще
но в любом случае дискуссия шла не о с которым он находится в отношениях, вообще,речь шла о том, что тип персонажа, которого он является

 Отправлено: 22.12.13 19:05. Заголовок: nilia Честно говоря..

nilia
Честно говоря, я вас лучше понимала, когда вы писали по-английски. Сейчас я понимаю, что вообще не понимаю, что вы хотите сказать :)

Для меня приемлемо все, что интересно и хорошо написано. Пара Коннор/Линдсей исчерпала себя еще много лет назад. В каноне их не было, об этом мы уже дискутировали. В каноне ничего не было. Для меня мужчина, который имеет личную жизнь, никого не обманывая и не принуждая, это естественно, приемлемо и вполне себе достойно.

Что касается истории в последних двух ролевках, то отношения с 2 девушками, пусть даже внутри одной команды, в разное время, я не нахожу недостойным или неприемлемым.

 Отправлено: 22.12.13 20:23. Заголовок: DellaD пишет: Честн..

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

Честно говоря, я вас лучше понимала, когда вы писали по-английски. Сейчас я понимаю, что вообще не понимаю, что вы хотите сказать

DellaD
интересно, потому что сегодня я думал о том же :) потому что переводчик работает хорошо, если текст не долго,но когда это долго результат иногда страшно.если вы помните, когда я впервые приехал сюда сказал, что я не люблю использовать переводчик за то, что я хочу сказать,и теперь причина ясна Я ничего не знаю русского языка, за исключением алфавита и только некоторые слова.но мой английский хорошо,и я могу выразить то, что я имею в виду гораздо более лучше на английском языке
так что если есть какая-то часть моего письма, которые не ясно,и вы хотели бы знать,просто укажите его и я могу переписать его на английском языке

 Отправлено: 22.12.13 20:28. Заголовок: nilia А можете прос..

nilia
А можете просто предыдущий пост повторить на английском? Просто там много слов и сочетаний переводчик явно намудрил, из-за этого смысл и акценты по большей части неясны.

 Отправлено: 22.12.13 23:05. Заголовок: DellaD конечно :) ..

DellaD

конечно :) вот английская версия, что я написал :

I never denied it, and say it openly I can't accept connor/clair pairing and love lindsay/connor pair
but when judging,I put this personal preference aside and then judge
so to talk in general,yes it's predictable and normal if a free man starts a relationship with a free woman,wherever and how ever it wants to get start, no matter.but only not if he is constantly changing partners
now pointing to the story (I actually read a little of the role playing stories but just didn't continue reading it to the end,so I almost know what was going on),and I have to say something.if it was said Doyle had girlfriends before, well, acceptable,but he had short time relashionship with every girl in his team,and it doesn't seem that acceptable.
what can be interpret as unpredictable here, or maybe a better word to use is, unlikely and hard to get in the head, is that it doesn't represent a decent character,but we know Doyle as a decent person , and I like him to remain this way.
keep in mind that we all started to love Connor Doyle and our other favorite heroes as the way they were in the movie.so now if a person changes this characters,the result is that we start to have disagreements,because this is no more the character which we all liked,it's changed to something that one person likes but the other might dislike

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

Но с Доннер. Видимо, это типа предсказуемо и в характере?

and I have to say something DellaD. Connor/Lindsay pairing is actually more predictable and more plausible,because it is what existed in the show, with almost clear hints in the first season,and proved and directly said in 418.but it was never showed or said something like that about Connor/Clair or anyone else.
But anyway the discussion wasn't about with whom he is in a relationship at all,it rather was about what type of the character he is.

 Отправлено: 23.12.13 15:12. Заголовок: nilia but only not ..

nilia

цитата:

but only not if he is constantly changing partners

Well young single men in the USA (or Canada, doesn't matter) is changing partners. More or less often. It's not a big deal. It's not unacceptable. It's not unpredictable. It's not indecent. It's normal. It's not a sin. It's not a crime. It's life.

It was never said that Doyle in that role-playing game "had short time relashionship with every girl in his team". It was said that he had relashionship with Donner a year ago before he started relashionship with Claire. Yeah, Alex said that she had one night with him but it turned out to be a lie. And also Lindsay implied she knows something about his other women... But come on, did she hold a candle?

But actually that all doesn't matter. What I wanted to say that these role-playing games should not be taken so seriously. They are not actual stories. They are not points of view. It's just a game, really. They are for fun, they have no scenario, they have no other point than be a fun. It's improvisation. Action and reaction. Just relax and look where it will take you. If we once start a game with Doyle as a serial killer it doesn't mean anyone think so.

nilia пишет:

цитата:

because it is what existed in the show, with almost clear hints in the first season,and proved and directly said in 418.

There was no Connor/Lindsay pairing in the show. 418 proves nothing. We've already been there, discussed that Don't think we should start all over again))) Not here anyway.

 Отправлено: 23.12.13 22:30. Заголовок: DellaD actually I d..

DellaD
actually I didn't mean it that way.firstly I meant about having short time relationships constantly,a situation that seems like the person doesn't know what he/she wants.which in fact I don't think connor was that type.secondly I want to point to your remark.now don't say it's like this in usa or canada.you think I know nothing of such things,or probably think it never happens about young men in my country?I think this issue is much more related to each individual person rather than where they live
DellaD пишет:

цитата:

What I wanted to say that these role-playing games should not be taken so seriously. They are not actual stories. They are not points of view. It's just a game, really

well I agree on this :) you are absolutely right!
but probably I have the right to choose what I want to read and what I don't?you know,I usually come to net to have some changes in the routin life.I want to have some fun,have a good time away from all what exhausted me.so I prefer to read something that please me.I never said something like nobody should write about connor/clair or any other pair.of course everyone can write any story they want. fanfictions and roleplayings are an alternative univers, and of course I understand it :)
DellaD пишет:

цитата:

418 proves nothing. We've already been there, discussed that

actually you got me wrong.I meant something else.putting my believes aside,I wasn't discussing at all about if they were in relationship or weren't,nor about if this was mutual or wasn't,nor that if what was in 418 was actually connor's memory and feeling or it wasn't, and such.no I wasn't talking about this things.I meant at least in the storyline of the show there was something said about a relationship between connor and lindsay.no matter if in 418 it wasn't the real connor,no matter if you think it was or wasn't something mutual.but there Was something.it Was showing an emotional thread.I know some of you here say it was just from lindsay's side, but even this itself is proving that there was something.
certainly there was something that made you think this way?But,was it ever said the same about clair and him or someone else?if you consider it one side thing,was it ever mentioned clair had feelings for him?
I think you probably got my point?
This was what I meant about clear hints, and the prove in 418

 Отправлено: 26.12.13 10:58. Заголовок: nilia I meant about..

nilia

цитата:

I meant about having short time relationships constantly,a situation that seems like the person doesn't know what he/she wants.

Really? And for me it seems like a person who is not really lucky and who hasn't met his true love. And I think that this is the most common situation.

цитата:

you think I know nothing of such things,or probably think it never happens about young men in my country?

Did I say a word about you or your country? Or you will deny that different countries have different cultural traditions? I know nothing about your country actually. But it is a little bit different for example in my country. And I think that it will be very differently around the world. So we need to remember what country we're talking about. And the only reason why I mentioned it because I don't want someone to take my words for what I consider normal or not. I can have my own opinion on what's normal relationship. But I'm a russian woman not an american man. And I always keep that in mind.

цитата:

I think this issue is much more related to each individual person rather than where they live

Yes, but we know nothing about CD in that aspect.

цитата:

but probably I have the right to choose what I want to read and what I don't?

Again did I say you don't? But I thought we were putting personal preferences aside. You were saying it's not predictable and normal when a young single man is changing partners. I disagree. I didn't say you should like it.

цитата:

I meant at least in the storyline of the show there was something said about a relationship between connor and lindsay.no matter if in 418 it wasn't the real connor,no matter if you think it was or wasn't something mutual.but there Was something.it Was showing an emotional thread.I know some of you here say it was just from lindsay's side, but even this itself is proving that there was something.

Well if you read this stories we are writing, at least a little, you see we never deny Lindsay's feelings for Connor. And if you mean this fan-service stuff then yeah, there was a kiss with that clone guy. But siriously you can't expect that in a fandom that exists for 17 years that would be the only thing everybody saw.

As for me I see much more romance in episode Healer when Doyle is holding Claire's hand than in all first season between Connor and Lindsay. I see much more interest in Doyle's eyes and body language for Anna Guskova in episode Perestroika than for all women during first season altogether. I think fans made Connor/Lindsay a predictable pairing. Not show itself.

 Отправлено: 26.12.13 22:06. Заголовок: DellaD пишет: And f..

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

And for me it seems like a person who is not really lucky and who hasn't met his true love.

DellaD

You know what? thinking about it, I think both of our views can be right.yes one might be in the situation because he hasn't found the right person,another might actually doesn't know what he wants,or there also might be other reasons than this two.I think we can't make a rule for this about all persons.

цитата:

Did I say a word about you or your country? Or you will deny that different countries have different cultural traditions?

No of course I don't deny it.even in the same country but different cities can be different cultures,how it's possible to deny it between different countries then? it's also one of my interests to know about different countries,so of course I'm aware of the cultural differences
and I also didn't say you said something about my country.I only meant this is what can happen anywhere in the world,and of course not that weird to me.That's all.if I said my mean badly,I'm sorry,I apologize.

цитата:

if you mean this fan-service stuff...

sorry I didn't understand what you mean "fan-service stuff". you mean about this fandom?
Of course I don't expect everyone think like me.every person has different opinion.I know I'm also not the only person who believe in linsay/connor pairing.but of course this doesn't mean it must be the thing that everyone believe.when watching a movie,everyone has it's own view point.not only the fans but also the actors,directors,writers...all might have different ideas.some have the same idea and some other don't.it's the same in all aspects of life.
So, I'm not gonna repeat it all over again what I see about this relationship.Let just each of us have it's own view :)

you know, I was wondering why the discussion lead to this again at all when I talked about predictability I didn't mean it about the relationships and pairing at all.only when Sub and Cassandra started talking about the relationships in the story I entered the discussion in short, and my intention was only to support my mean, that it's in some stories that Doyle is portrayed unpredictable character not in the movie.also in the previous post here I mentioned that a better word for what I was now saying about this relationship-thing is "unlikely" not "unpredictable" ,which I meant unlikely for the character of connor doyle,again in my opinion.
In fact when I asked Cassandra the question,the only thing I had in mind was that I was eager to know why she thinks Doyle is unpredictable,when I see no trace of this behavior in him.I don't remember somewhere in the show he would have showed an unpredictable reaction and behaved unpredictable.that's why I asked.never thinking of anything about any of the stories, or relations.all I was talking about was the personality type of the character in the movie, in general,not a particular manner.

 Отправлено: 27.12.13 10:24. Заголовок: nilia I think we ca..

nilia

цитата:

I think we can't make a rule for this about all persons.

No, we can't And that's what I like about fanfiction actually. The way it let us explore different possibilities. Especially when we know for sure so little about character.

цитата:

I also didn't say you said something about my country.I only meant this is what can happen anywhere in the world,and of course not that weird to me.

Ok, because it sounded differently And I didn't mean it should sound weird, only that it can be different.

цитата:

sorry I didn't understand what you mean "fan-service stuff". you mean about this fandom?

Well, it's a thing that creators of shows do not for the plot but simply to please fans. Like all this Paul Miller's appearence in 418 in general. And this kiss. I believe it wasn't because writers wanted to show us that there was between characters. I think they wanted to give people what they wanted to see. And in the same time they wanted to say: "Be carefull with what you wish". Because all that turned out to be really ugly in the end.

цитата:

you know, I was wondering why the discussion lead to this again at all

Guess because everytime someone says words like "unlikely" or "unpredictable" in the same discussion with Connor/Claire shippers become restless

цитата:

why she thinks Doyle is unpredictable

Well, ask Frank Elsinger))) I think in Perestroika he found out how unpredictable Doyle was

 Отправлено: 27.12.13 23:36. Заголовок: DellaD пишет: Well,..

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

Well, it's a thing that creators of shows do not for the plot but simply to please fans. Like all this Paul Miller's appearence in 418 in general

Oh yes, I know it was fans will to bring back Connor.but about the romance I have another idea,because I think it was long started (Ok now let's not discuss it all over again,ok?I'm actually sick of this repeated discussion )

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

And in the same time they wanted to say: "Be carefull with what you wish"

but you know what? I'm happy they made this wish.even now, I think I would have made the same wish,no matter what the consequence; it's worth it
Yes of course I would loved it to end differently,I would loved it was really connor alive. but still better than never see him again.of course it was not easy for me how it ended.I never wished for it.it broke my heart especially seeing lindsay in such situation.I could feel it how she felt,losing connor again.but... maybe it should be so;that this episode was made.who knows?
honestly I'm not sad this episode existed.despite of its sad end, I love this episode,firstly that we could see Connor again (and I know it was his clone,but I'm also a fan of Paul Miller,so it was good to see him) and the romance of course I loved, and another reason, I liked the subject itself.Regeneration lol, I don't forget when watching the re-run of the show I actually reviewed parts of the study for my genetic exam with it

DellaD пишет:

цитата:

Well, ask Frank Elsinger))) I think in Perestroika he found out how unpredictable Doyle was

despite of that I blame this decision to sacrifice himself,I don't think even this was that unpredictable

 Отправлено: 25.12.14 10:22. Заголовок: Не знаю, насколько в..

Не знаю, насколько в тему именно сюда, но где-то мне попадался вопрос, откуда у нас фантазии на тему Линдсей-Коннор отношений, вроде как в сериале не было намеков, а просто очень пара красивая. Пара действительно красивая, глаз не оторвать, но вот по просмотру 18 серии у меня если бы таких мыслей раньше не было, то уж точно появились бы. На мой взгляд то, как она из душа звонит Коннору и спрашивает «не занят ли он» очень заряженный момент (и даже мотив звонка - страх - не перебивает этого ощущения), а потом на фоне таких мыслей почему-то в глаза бросилось, как она закинула ножку на стуле перед ним :)

 Отправлено: 25.12.14 11:28. Заголовок: I know it’s long tim..

I know it’s long time since you discuss subject but re-watching 1.18 made me think about Lindsay-Connor “chemistry» when she called him after bath if he was not busy… and when she sat before him showing her knee over the table… and changing knowing looks… so if I have not already thought about their possible relationship I would think of it from that moment.
And I like so much how he encouraged her after interview – “you don’t need to prove anything” (or smth like that)

 Отправлено: 27.12.14 09:57. Заголовок: Maggie Yes almost l..

Maggie
Yes almost long time and I haven't been posting for a long time but came and visit sometimes,here and there

About lindsay/conner relationship I got the impression of their chemistry from the very first I watched PF.
In my opinion there are many hints.The way Conner looks at Lindsay when that homeless guy comments in 'The Hunter' ,or their conversation in 'Devil's Triangle' , his reaction while the accident happens in 'Reincarnation' , Lindsay calling him in 'The Fog' as you already mentioned,his reaction when that cChocolate Soldier' guy kisses Lindsay and also Lindsay's worriness,.... all this and there is even more. re-watching the series I noticed even more hints ,in even earlier episodes.(I haden't watched PF from the first episode ,at first watch).
Anyway, this is what I see,and I know I'm not the only one.but yes some also don't agree. but,I don't want to start again the "shippers' war". if you read the previous posts you know we already had a lot of those discussions.

 Отправлено: 29.12.14 13:59. Заголовок: nilia i'm glad t..

nilia i'm glad this community is still alive, its strange (a bit) and fascinating

nilia пишет:

цитата:

About lindsay/conner relationship I got the impression of their chemistry from the very first I watched PF.

absolutely as I do!

and you know, all this years (an it was long ago...) i didn't re-watched it being afraid that I would be dissappointed, and it all was from my young girl's imagination. But i do it now, and i feel the same way, i like everything. Even poor computer graphics))) and I don't like most of tv-shows

how do you think - why Connor didn't tell his team in 1.22 about his infection in the first place? It's very important action to understand his personality...